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  #11  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
HavasKD HavasKD is offline
 
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Forgot to say one thing:

Resolve this tension and this issue before getting married to your GF. If she has to walk in and deal with this hot steaming mess from the first day of her marriage then it will quite likely have an adverse effect on your married life for a long time to come. Sure, a trial by fire will burn away the weakness in her as a person as well as in your relationship, and both will emerge stronger in that case, but that is a best case scenario and even then it will be a drain of time, effort, emotional energy, and probably money. But any weaknesses of mind/temperament/personality in her will get tested and if she is not strong enough then she may (get closer to a) break down, and the whole experience will be psychological trauma for her. And if your brother and his wife and their kids are in your house say 3 years into YOUR marriage, then they (and whatever drama goes on for the next few years till then) will influence the children you and your wife will have by then. At the time of deciding when to get married and what your projected future married life looks like over a 10-year horizon, what are you going to tell your prospective wife and inlaws about the environment and financial support you can provide for the children you plan to have?

You have three alternatives, and you need to decide which is the alternative easy enough to execute as well as easy enough to live with the consequences.
1) Commit suicide
2) Do nothing, let things drift, take the path of least resistance at every point and live with however things turn out.
3) Make the hard choices and proactively take action, fight the tough battles and weather the storm till the new stable situation is reached

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  #12  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
amardeepthegreat amardeepthegreat is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavasKD View Post
First up: hello to the forum, the website, to everyone. I'm participating publicly for the first time in over 3 years. Yeah, that's how persuasive this OP's situation is.

To the OP:
It is never a good idea to shield anyone's weakness nor to protect them from the consequences of their actions. Your family has done exactly those with your brother, for years and years. Tough disciplining was called for since his childhood, but clearly that has been lacking. Once all the drinking and misbehaviour started from his years in Kolkata, he deserved the stereotypical 'American' treatment, namely, that parents have nothing to do with the kid once he crosses 18 years of age and he is responsible for himself (and herself) financially, legally, socially --- and even if he comes to live with the parents then he is supposed to pay rent to the parents. Not all Americans do that, and Indians are never known to do that, but your brother deserved nothing less. You, and your parents, are suffering for having gone easy on him, , and unless you change you will continue to suffer. He hasn't been able to take care of his expenses so far. Even when he was single and unemployed he courted a girl for ONE YEAR?!?!?!? After an affair with his first cousin ?? Itna paisa uske haath mein tum logo ne diya kyon?!?!??! On top of the problems that were present at that stage itself, you now have to deal with
1) his wife who knows from the day of her marriage that she was valuable enough that YOUR family would break custom to spend money for the wedding and bear insulting behaviour during the wedding just so that she marries your brother, and now she has begun to throw her weight around and become the tail that wags the dog
2) a child being born into this situation which will be controlled and shaped by two such dysfunctional-cum-malicious parents, so not only more expenses for which your brother may want more money from your and your father but also more troublesome behaviour as the years go by
3) your brother's health which is sure to deteriorate with time, implying more medical expenses for which he will surely ask you and point out risk to his life, to his income and the impact on his kid(s)

The solution is obvious and simple, but both you and your father seem too soft to be harsh.
1) Don't let your brother and his wife come back to live in the house, EVER, starting NOW. They've taken money, broken trust, been burdensome and been obstructionist. There is no upside to their presence in the house.
2) Have your father make it clear, himself in person now when he is alive, that any and all assets he now possesses will be inherited by you alone, with your brother getting nothing because he has already got a lot while giving nearly nothing in return. Your father even completing the transfer now when he is in control and communicating this publicly would be most preferable because then there isnt any scope for dispute. Your father making a will and this outcome revealing itself later may be convenient but it will be EXTREMELY difficult to prove a will genuine and enforce it against the background of hostility you describe.

There are other better forums/websites for a question like this. I am not mentioning the names here because I suspect the moderators will delete those parts. PM me if you want to know those.
Hi and thank you for your reply. Thank you to you all.

Firstly, I believe that his wife won't probably return if the dog is not removed. My father has made it clear he wants her to return but the dog won't go, as he will make sure he doesn't bother her or the child. It is very likely that she won't be taking that chance.

So if it comes to that then are only two scenarios

1. They move out of the house. I don't believe it will happen as living on a rented house would be nightmare for them, especially when they get all the urban luxuries in our home without having to do much.

2. They house will be sold and both brothers would be given equal share. This seems more likely as I know being the elder son, my parents do have a soft corner for him (something he has taken full advantage of). If this happens I would like my parents to stay with me as I know they will be well taken care of.

Secondly, my gf knows everything from the start.

We've been in a relationship for 3 years and couple of months, had so many fights, and now she sees such situation. She has stood by me like a rock. Unmoved and unshaken in her faith in me.

She's been my biggest strength. The day after my brother's in laws did all the drama and threatened me, she and her sister came to show support to me and the house in general. She has done more for this house including buying household items, helping with money, taking care of my parents then my brothers wife ever could.

I could not have asked for a better partner. She has though, asked me to take stern steps and asked my parents to start being strict with those who only think about themselves. Otherwise when she comes, she'll straighten them out her way and they (my brother and his wife) won't like it then. My father really likes and is fond of her so is my mother, and are waiting for the day I marry her and bring her to my house. My father has also made it clear that I shouldn't think about moving out as he or my mother won't be able to survive without me. Not only because I take care of them but because they love me to death.

Tough times are going to come and things will come to a head I know. I hope to have enough strength to do the right thing.

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  #13  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
maridegu maridegu is offline
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Pal Amar, .. kudos for being the rock you are, ..

Any thoughts of building a kennel ?

Can your brother, sit with alcoholics anonymous ?
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away from xossip till may end

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  #14  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
unsafe_pilot1 unsafe_pilot1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amardeepthegreat View Post
HI EVERYONE

This is going to be a long post. Please read and reply.

I'm a 26 year old guy living in Delhi. I live in my parents house with my parents, elder brother and his wife and two pet dogs. Needless to say Im in a screwed situation, and the only thing stopping me from commiting suicide are my parents and the woman I love.

My relation with my elder brother deteriorated in 2008. He had gone to Kolkata on a job in Wipro in 2005. He was an outstanding performer and had a very high income back then. But on the personal front he failed. We used to get calls from his landlord that he was mostly drunk on his holidays and barely ate anything, and was involved with a woman. He wanted my parents to intervene otherwise he would file a complaint. My brother, althouigh claims he helped us a lot financially, truth is sent us only a couple thousand rupees, that too once in two months or whenever he wished.

When he used to come to Delhi we could see he was not in a good shape, he had lost a ton of weight and looked emaciated. I saw a few marks on his back, which probably looked like someone beat him up. He told his that his autorickshaw had overturned (then why only marks on the back?).

3 years later he quit his job and came back to Delhi. he had some outstanding dues with banks which were paid for by my father. From there on Me and Brother used to have regular fights. My father enjoyed his drink at night, but didnt bother anyone. My brother on the other hand drank and started creating havoc on a daily basis. Sometimes he would fall, sometimes he would keep us awake because he was upset. And I used to get bothered a lot from this. He didn't have any job, and didn't help in household activities either. He kept sleeping till 1 or 2 in the noon and then would repeat his drinking activites later in the night.

I suspected there was a woman involved, and started digging a little more. I found out that he was having a physical relationship with our cousin (mamaji's daughter) and wanted to marry her. I informed my parents, who intervened. We were able to talk to both of them and make them understand, but my brothers antics continued. All this while I was trying to finish my secondary education and get into a college all the while helping out my parents in household work. Our enmity kept growing.

This kept happening till 2011 where I also got exhausted due to this, and me and my father thought about helping my brother out. He got a job after finishing a higher course (which he was not completing but my father pushed him to do so). He left that job one year later citing numerous reasons, and again become unemployed. All this while his habit of not contributing to family's financial needs, his lack of involvement in our house and his drinking habits continued. My parents had quite a large FD and we were able to sail through from its interest.

I found a girl for myself, and have been wanting to marry her. My parents love her and she also loves my family much. There has been some resistance from her parents side but we have managed to carry on. We believe they will give in, because she is quite headstrong in that sense.

My brother married a girl of his choice last year after a year of courtship. The entire marriage expense was borne by my father. He even paid for his honeymoon, paid for his entire room setup (including bed and wardrobe and AC). My brother had promised earlier that he would share 50% of the marriage expenses but since he didn't have a job that was not possible.

Wedding day couldn't have got any worse. The entire bride's family was indifferent to the groom's family. There was hardly anything left to eat when we went to, and my father felt utterly insulted from this aloof behaviour. I could see tears in my father and brother's eyes, as he was ready to walk out. I asked him not to do anything rashly, as I wanted him to have his family. That was my mistake no. 1.

I was lauded by my entire family as I was the one who held on and helped get the marriage to a proper conclusion.

Initially, my and my bhabhi has a very cordial and friendly relation. I wanted her to adjust herself to our family, since it requires time for anyone to become accustomed to a newer surroundings. My brother used to have regular fights with his wife. he used to get drunk and fight with her, sometime physically. She asked for our assistance and I had to step in along with our parents. we made them understand. The turning point here was last september.

My male dog, whom I have kept for 8 years without any incident, had bitten my bhabhi twice. The first time this happened, I had asked her to accompany me outside while I walked him as it was impossible to make them friends inside the house. I knew this would work over time as he would also become used to her presence as this was exactly what I did to make my dog friendly with my gf. My bhabhi flatly refused.

The second time he bit her, my brother started creating a scene that throw this mutt of the house. I too got agitated and told him I wont, at which point my brother got in my face and started shouting. I pushed him and fell on his wife. He got mad, held my throat and slapped me hard asking how dare I hit his wife? I too retaliated and started hitting him and pinned him down, knocking his teeth out. This was all a repeat of what used to happen earlier. His wife finally laid on top of him and we were seperated by our father.

He threatened he is calling the cops, and I urged him to do so as I had his toxicology report which stated his liver is in grave danger.

Things remained soured between us. Last diwali I went to him, apologised for hitting him and tried to make amends, but I sensed that although he too hugged me, him and his wife were not opening up mentally. His relation with his wife improved, but their lack of involvement in this house continued. My father was paying most of the bills, as my bhabhi and I were giving whatever we could to help us. We were told that she is earning 15k in a job of 6 years, but we knew that was a lie.

My brother got a job last November. He earns a measly 13k. Last month we got the news that his wife is pregnant, and would be staying at her parents house as her office is only a walk away from there. Also she is terrified of my dog so she doesnt feel safe here. We told her that the dog wont bother her anymore as he would be locked in my room, but her presence could help as my mother is now suffering from a severe skin disease and cant work most of the time. She nor my brother listened, and Ive been helping out my mother after coming home from work.

My brother is now buying a car, and flatly told us not to expect much financial assistance from him as he needed money to support his wife and child. I told him that was not acceptable as we all had done enough for him, while all the time he kept sleeping in the comfort of his ac room without caring of for the bills or the housemembers and household work. Now its his turn to also help us and he can't just raise his hands and say I would only do little, and I don't know how little that would be.

My father also echoed my views, at which point he again got agitated. He started again accusing me of things I haven't said, of things I haven't done, and said that I was a disrespectful little prick who only knew how to dominate people, as I was beating up my parents and terrorised them according to him and his wife who had claimed to see this with her own eyes.


Last Sunday his wife and her sister mother and father came to our house. They threatened me of breaking my hands if i laid a finger on my brother, and agaim accused me of terrorising my parents by beating them black & blue. My parents flatly denied this. My bhabhi also laid down a condition, throw out the male dog out or I wont be bringing my child in this house. She said to my father the choice is yours. My father assured her the dog wont come near her, but she refused to listen. All this while my brother just sat there.

My bhabhi also said to my and her parents of how she had been a dutiful daugher in law, and how numeruous times she cooked and helped us. She also revealed how she had helped my and my gf last year when she was pregnant with my child. I told her that I had praised a massive amount of trust in you and your husband, but by bringing my gf and my unborn child in this issue, you've broken that trust.

They left. I asked my brother why did she bring up the pregnancy issue and he told me to speak to her directly and not question him. I reminded him that he fought with me saying that she is his responsibilty so I have the right to ask him.

I told my parents everything, I informed them that yes my gf was pregnant with my child, but it was a real early pregnancy and we had to get it aborted. We wanted to keep the child but knew we couldn't. I had informed my brother and his wife of this and they did help at that time promising not to tell anyone. She broke that promise because she felt hurt that I had spoken of her excessive use of butter and oil in foods to my aunt.

I feet really hurt, and most of all I feel tired. I'm working a a 9 to 6 job. Helping my parents financially, I come to house and cook food as my mother has got a horrible case of eczema and is unable to work mostly. My brother just goes to work, comes in eats food and sleeps. On his off days he got to his in laws house to meet his wife who doesnt bother to call or talk to my parents let alone me.

Ive talked to my father and told him that I cannot continue like this anymore. He had informed my brothers in laws not to come to our house anymore, as he was utterly disappointed with their behaviour. My father also said that he was sick of this, and that removing the dog wont change the underlying problem, which is the selfish attitude of my brother and his wife. As they both had made it clear that they were scared of me as well.

My father said he also felt safe in the dogs presence as for 8 years he had protected us. My parents stay alone in the day as we are all busy in office, and the dogs give them a sense of security.

He said that dont think about moving out of this house as we wont be able to live without you.

My father said that my elder brother and his wife and child are welcome here, provided they adjust because it is his house. If they can't, then he would ask them to leave as he his tired of taking care of his elder son.

I too feel mentally tired. For 10 years I've tried to help my brother. I've done all the household work,plus always helped our parents out so as to provide him some comfort and not burden him with responsibilites, but all to no avail as finally he again showed his true colors. There's no going back anymore. I cant reconcile with people who accuse me falsely, who sit by and do nothing for years yet demand respect due to their age. Who, just to score brownie points, talk about sensitive matter as if its a piece of gossip without realising what those issues did to the people involved.

Please kindly give your thoughts on this issue.

Once again sorry for such a long post.
Problems need to be solved ! Not partial nor quarter and not by half. They have to be solved in full. Print this on your soul.

Family problems are never solved(sad reality but truth) because people never change. So plan your separation. Leave your elder brother he is a nuisance. The early you understand the better it is for you.

You will become financially capable when your mind is away from these silly things. The success of life is to have life as stable as possible. Who your are is what you think maximum about. Right now your just a boy and not a man.

Last edited by unsafe_pilot1 : 4 Weeks Ago at 08:51 AM.

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  #15  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
HavasKD HavasKD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amardeepthegreat View Post
Hi and thank you for your reply. Thank you to you all.

Firstly, I believe that his wife won't probably return if the dog is not removed. My father has made it clear he wants her to return but the dog won't go, as he will make sure he doesn't bother her or the child. It is very likely that she won't be taking that chance.

So if it comes to that then are only two scenarios

1. They move out of the house. I don't believe it will happen as living on a rented house would be nightmare for them, especially when they get all the urban luxuries in our home without having to do much.

2. They house will be sold and both brothers would be given equal share. This seems more likely as I know being the elder son, my parents do have a soft corner for him (something he has taken full advantage of). If this happens I would like my parents to stay with me as I know they will be well taken care of.

Secondly, my gf knows everything from the start.

We've been in a relationship for 3 years and couple of months, had so many fights, and now she sees such situation. She has stood by me like a rock. Unmoved and unshaken in her faith in me.

She's been my biggest strength. The day after my brother's in laws did all the drama and threatened me, she and her sister came to show support to me and the house in general. She has done more for this house including buying household items, helping with money, taking care of my parents then my brothers wife ever could.

I could not have asked for a better partner. She has though, asked me to take stern steps and asked my parents to start being strict with those who only think about themselves. Otherwise when she comes, she'll straighten them out her way and they (my brother and his wife) won't like it then. My father really likes and is fond of her so is my mother, and are waiting for the day I marry her and bring her to my house. My father has also made it clear that I shouldn't think about moving out as he or my mother won't be able to survive without me. Not only because I take care of them but because they love me to death.

Tough times are going to come and things will come to a head I know. I hope to have enough strength to do the right thing.
Just read through what you wrote above and tell me if I am wrong in saying that basically, you are hoping for things to work out according to your preferences without you having to do anything for it and you are hoping that when push comes to shove you will do the correct thing automatically at the last moment without prior planning, anticipation and preparation.

Already from what you say it is clear that either you or your father will be unhappy. He won't let go of the dog nor of the son and daughter in law, daughter in law won't allow the dog to stay, you want the dog but not that daughter in law (your sister in law).
If your brother and his wife move out then your father will be a little unhappy but those two will be very very unhappy; and you say they can't afford it so they actually wont move out until your father sells the current house and splits the money between you two brothers and your brother buys another house with his share OR uses that money to pay rent for the rest of his life --- which means your brother and his wife are sure to stay with you for months or more likely a year or two. During that time you are sure to be that much more unhappy, and if that dog is sent away like your sister in law wants, they you will be that much more unhappy.

Justice demands isolating yourselves from the fallout of your brother's and his wife's choices and actions, but you are not willing to explore all these possibilities and be proactive. You really have to make your mind up about what outcome you want to see, and talk to your mother and father and arrive at a consensus after weighing all pros and cons and making the hard choices. Your brother is bound to be unhappy no matter where he goes and what he does, his wife will add fuel to the fire, and their child is destined to be collateral damage to at least some extent. Unless your parents and you (and your wife in due course) reconcile to this inescapable reality and choose WHERE you want to localise the damage to relationships and quality of life, you 3 (or 4) will suffer more than you shoudl have or deserve to.

About your GF. From what you say, she's already half a wife. Honeymoon ho gaya, abortion ho gaya, ghar ka sab pata hai, ghar sambhal rahi hai, sirf ghar me aake rehna baaki hai. You may draw emotional strength from her, but it is simply wrong to leave it to her to sort out any of this after marriage. She can use the same energy and mental bandwidth for others tasks later. (In mgmt jargon, opportunity cost.) So don't leave this issue unresolved till then.

Your father has got to realise that he will definitely have to choose between his sons. He wants the whole family together; that is plainly delusional at this point. If "matter come to a head" as you say, then rest assured decisions will be made when tempers are running high and probably impulsively in the heat of the moment, and those will not be the best decisions nor will they prevent otherwise avoidable burning of bridges. And as for you, you "hope to have enough strength to do the right thing" without working to gain that strength. Whereas in truth, like for sportspeople and soldiers, it takes a lifetime of training and preparation for a few seconds of performance. Do look back on these words a few decades from now and tell me how closely they described how events actually devolved.

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